Removing Fangs? is it fair?

Tom · 3rd May 2009, 01:32 PM

hi DWA Fans...

id love a rattle snake, or a small viper, but i am 100% unable to keep one, as i am so stupid, and clumsy, but..

what are your thought on DWA species that have there fangs/ Venon removed..

do you think it would increase DWA snake owners, or do you think its against the species nature to have this removed..

on the other hand, would it not improve there numbers if more were kept in captivity, and therefore protect the species due to rainforests being cut down, and global Climate Change..

id like to hear what you think, and i can see 2 sides to this story, im a non DWA owner, so of course i have no DWA Experirence, but i do think it could help protect some species if they could be obtained better.
Tom

TyMilsom · 3rd May 2009, 02:51 PM

Hi Tom,

Removal of fangs is a non starter, as they grow back for one thing. The practice of removing the venom glands rendering the snake "venomoide" is not uncommon. This is a contraversial topic.

The following things should be considered:

1) If the operation is not carried out correctly, the snake can still be partially or wholey venomous.

2) would you just take someones word that a snake has had the glands removed? What if a hot snake has been accidently mixed up with a venomoide? Identification is a problem.

3) What if you have a pair of venomoides and they breed, all the offspring will be hot!

4) What about the moral issue, should we put an animal through surgery, just so we can handle it easier?

Lot's of issues!

I have kept quite a few venomoides in the past. I can say that from a training point of view, there is some merit to working with venomoides. In the past argument has been held over whether removing the venom from a snake, makes its digestive process problematic.....I would say that I had kept some venomoides cobras for over 10 years before selling on, and can honestly say, that they eat and defecated at the same rate as my hot ones.

Interestingly someone has just reported that a Black Mamba (venomoide) has just been killed by a hot Black Mamba, and that aspects of it's immunity were lost when it's glads were removed.

These issues are complex and there are pro's and con's, but for my part; I am now swaying away from the idea.

Cheers

Ty

TyMilsom · 3rd May 2009, 02:53 PM

On another note.... you may be surprised how many venomous snakes are kept in the UK?

Tom · 3rd May 2009, 05:52 PM

thanks ty for your advice..

how many are kept?

TyMilsom · 3rd May 2009, 06:03 PM

I couldnt put a figure on it....but lots! lol

bomb · 3rd May 2009, 06:31 PM

I'd say no. It's the animals natural offencive and defencive systems, we hold no right to remove the animal of this. Like Milsom said there can be a hell of a lot of confusion about it and the risk of buying one without the right knowledge or honesty level far out weight the reward. I believe that if you don't trust yourself enough to work with a true hot snake then don't as opposed to mutliating the animal just so you can. I hope to one day have a Black Mamba of my own and it won't be until I know I'm completely able and confident enough to work with the animal rather than mutilate it for my own convenience.

TyMilsom · 3rd May 2009, 06:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bomb

I'd say no. It's the animals natural offencive and defencive systems, we hold no right to remove the animal of this. Like Milsom said there can be a hell of a lot of confusion about it and the risk of buying one without the right knowledge or honesty level far out weight the reward. I believe that if you don't trust yourself enough to work with a true hot snake then don't as opposed to mutliating the animal just so you can. I hope to one day have a Black Mamba of my own and it won't be until I know I'm completely able and confident enough to work with the animal rather than mutilate it for my own convenience.

Good on ya mate

Tom · 4th May 2009, 11:34 AM

i agree bomb, and its not something id personaly do myself to have one..

but what i was asking is if there was say a leaf viper due to be exstinct from the wild, and the only way to save them would be through Captive breeding, would having more "kept" through reptile owners, to save the species?..

i personaly think no animal should be made exstict, and im a firm beliver in if we have to take measures to keep a species alive, and thriving, actions must, or should be taken to ensure that..

or am i alone in that thinking?

id never suggest removing venom/ fangs etc, but if it had to be, so more could be commercial to keep the species avalible, would that not be a better option?
After all, how often do you see leaf vipers up for sale, unless they are Wild caught!?...

bomb · 4th May 2009, 02:14 PM

No I still don't think it should happen. Zoo's should take it upon themselves to breed the animals and I'm sure venemous keepers would be willing to do so aswell. Conservation starts with Zoo's not by removal of venom glands, especially when you can never be 100% that it's been done properly. Also would you have all of the Viper's venom glands removed? What about if normal keepers kept them and bred them to boost the numbers the babies are still going to be hot and then the keepers would have the responsibility to raise the hot babies.